On the Same |Boat|
Welcome to Breaking the Trance source cast, episode eight on the same boat. And I'll let you take the
Ashok:the the lead today. Well, that's sweet of you, Nathan.
Näthan:You know, I'm a sweet guy.
Ashok:Well, again, we won't be anyone, this is really a heart to heart you and I are having to reflect deeply on the most important issues facing our human family across the planet. And although we're situated, we keep repeating, in USA, we're not USA centric. We're we're more global center of the whole human family because breaking the trends, the the the the code that we haven't faced, the software of the mind that allows us to have reason and and meaning and language and culture and worlds and and science and discipline, arts, and all of the beautiful things about humans and all the good the good and evil. Everything is what we have in the human family across the planet. We haven't really faced despite the great call of our first philosophers, as we said, of trying to get to the ground floor of being, of reality, deeper than where we've been because this is seems to be inherently fragmented, polarizing, you're not coherent.
Ashok:No no possibility of finding the unifying force and common ground across a widespread diverse narratives and worlds and cultures and religions and scriptures and disciplines and all that fragmentation and silos here in the software, and we have not been able to face it. And, you know, all the great scriptures and first teachers breaking through in whatever way we can beyond this software into the deeper from the rep the language it represents and talks about the world, which is great, that that version of language. But to one, when you're in the zone, that's a deeper language that we've not yet civilized and gained the full literacy even though our great teachers and the scriptures were trying to speak from this deeper space without knowing that we're crossing into a deeper software. So where we are in this this is the number eight episode, and you and I are in our conversation now continuing in the deepest heart to heart with a great passion that that across the planet, there the the human family is in deep existential jeopardy that has been unfolding and building almost like a virus for millennia. And things are peaking in our global space, in our global world.
Ashok:It's become it's gonna burst here. It can't sustain it. This software can't handle the open range of free human beings. And we're calling we're trying to call that out, standing on the shoulders of the great scriptures and teachers. And one of the things now that I'd like to throw at you and see what how you make of it, because you and I have discussed this in thousands of conversations over the last ten years.
Ashok:Almost daily research in in in the lab to cultivate this missing language of of logos, the source, the software.
Näthan:The the the the
Ashok:the code here, the software, and the source where between the two languages. Language here and language here. And we see that this is fragmented inherently, and yet humans are still by default in the space. But despite the genius, and artistry and nobility and moral heroism of men and women through the ages that we've had here. Brilliant.
Ashok:But something is stalled. So I think in this eighth episode, looking back on the last the recent ones that this is where the people meet. This is we, the people, are no. They know we can't be we. This is scattered.
Ashok:We're in silos. We're in Lego separateness because of the software, and we can't see it. The profound wide ranging human dysfunctions and and pathologies, existential. This is being, the language of being in the space, and we can't see it and diagnose it within it. We can't solve our political meltdown within it.
Ashok:We can't solve a personal inner breakdown as we look for wholeness and well-being within it. We have to see it and that's breaking the trends. Until we break the trends, a human family across the planet finally, and and and migrate and cross into the deeper, unified, holistic, organic space where it's sacred space in in surfing the field of being, a reality. But our suffering is gonna continue, and we can't afford to wait another hundred years. It says that we feel the urgency now, you and I, and people across the planet.
Ashok:And in The USA, for example, recently, things have gone to a whole other level of a feeling of emergent crisis, you know, something is broken that we thought we had, and it's it's clear we we don't have it in the same way with recent developments. So I wanna just throw the ball to you and see how you can help as a healer, as a yoga, as a source artist, as a yoga teacher, and a first philosopher, you know, as a colleague. How do we deal with the question that all of these diverse alternative competing polar narratives are still in the same boat, in the same code?
Näthan:How do
Ashok:we see how do we get because if people don't see this and think, oh, if I'm a if I have theism and you're atheism, then you're out there. No. Theism and atheism are within the same place. Rationalism and empiricism, as polar as it, are same place. Big Bang Genesis, same place.
Ashok:Pro choice, plural, same place. Same place meaning the same software. We're we're large. So the software is a binary. It's either or.
Ashok:It's one or many. It's unum or pluribus. It's universal or particular. It's a priori, a posteriori, on and on the two different poles that we think, they both they share the the same software. And people need to see this with great urgencies if we're going to break the trance and cross into the deepest base.
Ashok:So I'm I'm throwing the the baton to you now. Let's let's have a heart to heart on that. Okay.
Näthan:Yeah. I'll I'll I'll take a stab at it. Again, you know, as as you and I have talked a lot, you know, sometimes I think the terminology you use, you know, as a philosopher might be hard for people to connect with a little bit and, some of these lofty terms in the way that you describe that. I guess I wanna kinda bring it down to Earth a little bit because everyday people who aren't thinking about being in the field of being or
Ashok:or Or the logos. Yeah.
Näthan:Words like a posteriorian, a priori, and things all all these philosophical terms. I I wanna just make it really, really easy to grasp. We're we're suffering. Life is life is really, really hard right now for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. There's a lot of fear in the field, and there's a lot of anger, and there's a lot of division and pol polarity going on.
Näthan:And each each side thinks that they're on the right side of history. And I'm not talking just about politics, but it's a it's just such a ripe, example that everybody's exposed to right now, not just in America, but on the, on the global stage in terms of the fight for the for democracies, you know, the free world as they call it collectively, versus authoritarianisms. Those two things as, as drastically different as they are. Could they be in the same boat? Could not that they're the same or equal or or that, you know, it it's, you know, there's not actual of a right side and a wrong side.
Näthan:But the the question is when we're talking about things like like, reaching well-being, like, on a personal level or on a on a global level, could we be going about it all wrong by realizing that we are when we're pitting ourselves against the bad guys, and everyone always thinks the other one's the bad guy and that they're the good guys. Right? Can we take a moment to step back? This is kind of what we've been talking about a lot lately. My my my dad and I in recent conversations, they're in the same boat.
Näthan:You take the Democrat and Republican as vastly different and opposing or or you can say liberal and conservative. You brought in things like pro life and pro choice. All of these different capitalism versus communism. These things that that we just
Ashok:think racism, antiracism. I would go on and on.
Näthan:On and on and on. And what we wanna bring to the table and start to massage here of in a way that you you guys out there can get without it being lofty or, like, overly philosophical, but just but at the same time, it's a deep science. We're we're not gonna get any better. We're not gonna overcome this division, the civil war and the culture and the civil war within ourselves until we realize that these these opposites are actually married. Right?
Näthan:So we're we're if we don't see that, then what we end up doing is just pushing against each other and ourselves and deepening the chasm, ironically, that we so, you know, oftentimes, arrogantly and self righteously, try try to overcome the other side, you know, and overcome the the the the evil in the world and the bad in the world, but we're we're doing this. We're pressing we're pressing in. It's that it's that principle of Yep. Of, deepening deepening the division with that if you don't see it. And that's again, breaking the trans means to step out of that that, that battle with within the box, the culture wars within the box
Ashok:That's right.
Näthan:Into and to step into the the the as we have here on the on the hologram, the double bracket space, so we can understand, wow. I just thought there was a right side and a wrong side, but while they're together, they're married. Wow. This is a whole this changes everything. Right?
Näthan:Because the things that we do wanna improve on in culture on so many levels, we can we can transcend this this the the the warring ideology all around us, but not if we stay within the in the malware, the software that we keep pointing out here.
Ashok:Thank you, Nathan, because I think bringing it to Earth. Yeah. And this is where I think in our partnership, and our dialogue, you know, I, as, you know, my whole life, sixty years of trying to understand them, standing on the shoulders of a great teacher's first responders, scriptures, first philosophies, wisdom, enlightenment, and seeing patterns, deep patterns of attempting to get to whatever name you get for the field of being, reality. You can call it the light of reason, irrational space, and many different ways of of putting it. But also seeing that the the software of our language, which is talking about the world.
Ashok:Here are the the the individual or the culture or the the tribe or or or the people sharing within a technology and a certain lens. I didn't put a lens in there, but if you change your lens, you change your story. This is where all the narratives and stories, this is where the world appears. Our inner world appears here, and our external world appears here, and it is a binary space. This is a binary sourceware.
Ashok:It means whatever, a or not a, are still within the a. May I give a reason? Nothing. I wanna hold your lead in being earthy so that everyday folk with their natural intelligence, our natural intelligence, can understand. Mhmm.
Ashok:Because this is so important to see that the culture we're in is in a software, a matrix, a grammar, a logic, a mind operating process, many names for this. And it allows us it's great. It allows us to to have a narrative, to have a world, to have meaning, to have reason, to have talk about the world, to have events and things appear, and to have life and politics and relationships and all that going on in this narrative space. We live in this narrative space, but it's all being held. And we can't have this derivative.
Ashok:This is a derivative software from the primary software, sourceware. Right? But we haven't been sensitive enough to that because when we hear our wisdom teachers in our scriptures, which are urging us to migrate to the space of of presence, of mindfulness, of mindful humans, logos kids, logos logos fear, from the Greek word logos meaning the light of reason, a being, and the original word, the original language, that that's when we find our original self. That but but we're here, and it's this this form of language and intelligence and public space and and politics and human life and personal life and psychological life all going on here is a binary software that every everything to get to be me is not me. If I'm gonna claim I as a separate independent being, Right?
Ashok:There's there's going to be what is not me. So so there's it already has started. Whatever lens I whatever story I buy I, there is a not I. There's a difference between I and what is not I. So there's a line here.
Ashok:And the I and the not I, so the subject who is thinking of the object. And then how do you deal with the object? Well, you could break it down. Is it s or p? Is it either s, is there, isn't p?
Ashok:There's a plus minus. It keeps going plus minus. I can say yes or no to a thought, to to a narrative such as the gospel. Jesus is my lord. Yes.
Ashok:I I can use my will to say yes to Jesus, yes to God, yes to Moses, yes to Allah, yes to yoga, yes to science. Whatever lens I use or my community of users, there's the thinkers and what we think about the narratives, the narratives here, but it's a binary. So just as if you have nothing, when you have say moving, something that is moving plus and unmoving minus are still moving. It's a deeper connection. That's how polars are still united in a deeper field.
Ashok:This is a deeper field, and you can have polar narratives. You could have science versus religion still in the same shape boat. You can have the world is from spirit, no, the world is from matter. Materialism, same boat. Even though the opposition between the two across this polar space, which is a binary, And the so the binary is a software you're using.
Ashok:And the binary is a binary. It binds us if we can't free ourselves from it. But we can't see it. We see it here, but we can't step back and see here. So when we're in this form of mind operating under the sway of this software, we're saying, you've got to see this and break the strands.
Ashok:Why? Because it's keeping us in a deeply chronic, polar, fragmented Lego pieces. Cause I'm a Lego unit. I'm a have my own being. And the great teachers don't know you can't be apart from being.
Ashok:So there's a version of you that's deeper than you think. This is one form of thinking, but this thinking under the software and laboring under it is in the binary. The binary is a binary, so when you think you have racism or anti racism, well, same boat. So how do you fight racism? Well, maybe racism is one of the symptoms from the binary shredder that objectifies the other, self and other.
Ashok:And it's not the left space where you join beyond the binary into the Unam, the unified reality, logos, the Unam, the more perfect union, is not here. This is this is the device this is a device of software. It polarizes. That's the power of god. Is there is an.
Ashok:And so all of our narratives and it's not just poets. All of them, all of the different world views and narratives that are competing for this space, this information space, the narrative that shapes what's real and what's true. Reality and truth is a narrative that wins. Is it the Gospels? Is it God like?
Ashok:Or is it matter? Is it big bang? Is it Genesis? Which story? But they're in the same boat.
Ashok:Until we see that, and we we have to see the software, that's breaking the trance. Or we see this as a step back. Oh. The teachers who teach meditative thinking, not just form of thinking, not binary thinking, dual dualism, but trans dualism. Unified.
Ashok:The unified field of being. Reality is not in silo pieces. You can't silo it. Everything here is siloed. So it's not just oppositional a or not a.
Ashok:It's all of the multiple things in silos exclude each other in the binary, and we're bound by the binary, and we're not free agents. This is huge now of what we're trying to bring out to the people. But this has been so hard to see. For millennia, our great teachers are trying to find a way without the markers to say, here, folks, you're in the you're in the derivative binary code here, and the and it works, and it gives us a lot of information. It's great.
Ashok:We need it. We survive from that. That's good. We have arts and sciences of productivity and human relations. I and the other.
Ashok:I and the other subject, and the other the other here is objectified. But that can lead to profound human fragmentation disorders and pathologies if you objectify yourself or the other. And the great moral teacher says, don't treat a person as an object. Persons are here. We brought this up in the last seven, source cast from here.
Ashok:So I just want to bring this out. If if if there's a way enough in your attempt to bring it to an earthy level where everyday folks say, oh, this isn't it? I see that opposites can be in the same place. That we can have opposites in the binary, p or not p, but they're they're p. This or not, this is still the same code.
Ashok:So whatever the oppositions are, right, and there's a different kind of opposition that that's it's not no. It's this or that. So in in this case of Christianity, Jesus, the logos, speaking this language, I am the way. Truth is over here. This is the way.
Ashok:Truth is over here. Love one another. That kind of talk. This is the love zone. Why?
Ashok:Because being is harmony. It's connection. It's an impervious. It's united. Right?
Ashok:Come leave this and come here. Leave divisiveness and fragmentation because it's not sustainable. This software cannot sustain itself because it's an artificial derivative language that couldn't work without the unified force holding it. This couldn't work. The derivative can't work without the primary.
Ashok:So how do we get to the primary language? Well, we've got to see that that if we're trying to stand the post and you say democracy, that's anti democracy. Same boat. You just said it. That's stunning.
Ashok:So small d, democracy, and the opposite, autocracy or tyranny or whatever one you call it. Wow. Get away from me. No. We're married.
Ashok:Opposites, the binary, it's almost you can't get divorced. You can't get a you can't get divorced here. Because if you step away, you're still in the binary. So even when you're divorced, you're still in a way bound. And if this is here, it's because if our minds, our will, our freedom here is bound here by the binder in this space, and we're locked in here.
Ashok:And we don't know our way out. That's what Socrates is here in the cave. We're not in the light of logos. And the different words that we have across the planet, this is sin. This is samsara.
Ashok:This is why. What does it mean? If we didn't have sin language, this hologram will say, well, if you're in this software, you're cut off from a deeper flow. May I Yes. Please help.
Ashok:I I I I'm just I know I I'm trying to
Näthan:No. I just I I wanna make use of the time we got, and it's it's flying fast. And and I I think you're you've been saying you've been saying so much, and and and it's I get what you're saying. I'm just wondering if anyone is getting it.
Ashok:Help help us, though.
Näthan:Help the help. Okay. Just because I mean, and you you're you're moving very fast and I know. Bringing in a lot of big, big ideas. And I just I don't I don't know.
Näthan:I I think I feel like we need to start a little bit with just the visceral, what you know, on that level so people can connect with what they're struggling with and what they're afraid of, what they're facing in the world.
Ashok:Good. Help us, Nava. Help us. Good.
Näthan:Oh, yeah. I mean so I mean okay. I mean, we've been talking about the this the what's going on in the world. That's a big thing right now. People are afraid about what's going on in the takeover of of authoritarian regimes and the decline of democracy, which is freedoms, like freedom of speech and freedom to be.
Näthan:But, you know what I'm saying? But even that is really lofty for some people. They're just they're they're in their they're in their lives. Right? And they're and they're trying to make ends meet, and they're, you know, they're voting on that level, you know, they're thinking that there's, people's lives, okay, I think people know that, obviously, there's a big world out there and it matters, but I think a lot of people are not even realizing, you know, that, how much it matters for them in their lives.
Näthan:But they do experience depression, anxiety, breakdown in their relationships, unhappiness in their relationships, a sense of, not being fulfilled in their lives. And people are trying I think one of the words I wanna bring in here is activism. Activism as a blanket term for everything that people try to do to get better. Everything that we wanna do to get better. And, you know, obviously we know we have elected officials who are making policies and all this kind of stuff, and we have to vote, and, you know, but even just close to home, right there in your relationship with your with your significant other, you can probably think of a countless things that are, you know, polarized and issues that that lead to breakdowns, misunderstandings, communication breakdowns, and all of this.
Näthan:And where does it go? I mean, you can go to, you know, relationship therapy. But if you're not getting out of the software that objectifies the other, as you're pointing out, if you're if you don't realize it's your mindset, you know, that you have that you have a lens, and that you're and that lens is comprised of of a belief system, like what you believe and how you were raised and what you what what your strong convictions are. And if you don't realize that those those convictions are kind of, part of a part of a software, part of a, a mindset that's pitting you against the other. So you're you're the person that could be the love of your life can still be objectified.
Ashok:As a struggle. Yes.
Näthan:As a as a you know, so I guess what I'm trying to do is I'm taking what I'm not negating what you're saying. I'm just trying to make it really, really, like, basic in terms of this is this is about our happiness. This is about our well-being. This is about, you know, being able to, individually and collectively rise to higher ground and to to a world that really isn't scary to be in. And, and we're not on the brink of war all the time or in war all the time, but we're we're not seeing that our wars are being generated by the same no matter which side you're on, and I'm not saying there isn't a better side.
Näthan:Like, obviously, eradicating the the, you know, what am I trying to say? In World War two, the the, you know, just the genocide that was going on, the side that was coming in to stop that was obviously better. Right? That's not the point. What what we're we're trying to say is that that if we're really gonna we keep on cycling around to it.
Näthan:It keeps on we keep on finding ourselves in the same place again and again and again. There's a certain, insanity, like a glaring insanity, to our to to our human discourse, obviously. And then we keep on repeating the same things over and over and over and over. Why? What's the science behind that?
Näthan:Whether it's in your relationships, close to home, whether it's within yourself, whether it's on the larger scale, we're we're in a pattern. You know, it's a pattern of suffering. We keep on doing the same thing over and over and over. Why is that happening? Well, because because of what we're pointing out here in terms of the the opposing sides.
Näthan:So I guess I'm just trying to I'm trying to take what you're saying that which is, like, the the pure distilled science, which I think by itself might make a lot of people go cross eyed when they hear enough
Ashok:I I know it does not.
Näthan:Letters Yeah. Letters and pluses and minuses and, you know, things you up there, the s and the p, we we'd people don't know what that is.
Ashok:I know. I know. And, I I feel in the mind that's why I really, really need you so much. Yeah. But, you know, to to really help, you know, be that bridge to reach the everyday person because it is vital.
Ashok:But I'm with my students for a whole semester Yeah. Teaching for fifty seven years, and I can looking at the text and reading the text or speaking the deeper language or and dealing with this intercode, inter inter software shift, and all the turbulence and confusion and chaos when the when you don't have the markers to even know where you are. And you all you have is what you default into, which is the language we're comfortable with, and we can translate everything, here. Right? And the students begin to go go through, woah.
Ashok:I never saw this. I didn't know that. Yeah. But it's
Näthan:not just one Just to let everyone know, I've I've been taking your classes, my dad's classes for for six years straight now. I go to every single class. I'd be like I'm get super bummed if I miss them because it to me, it's like the most important and empowering thing to that you can possibly learn. So I wanna be clear, like, I see what you're doing here on your pad is actually the the most simple and the most simplifying of this shit show that we're all living in. You know, so it's like, I I guess I guess what I'm trying to do is is is help people understand that that that why they need to get this, why they need to understand the deeper science of it.
Näthan:And that this isn't a bad matter of our opinion. This isn't this isn't our ideology. This is
Ashok:I love that.
Näthan:This is the science of getting out of ideology. That's the whole point of the double bracket space and pointing out the single bracket space. That's the ideology space. And you you know, you have good good ideologies and bad ideologies. Okay?
Näthan:It's
Ashok:What is an ideology? What is
Näthan:an ideology? Well, you number of ways you can say it, but a belief system, it's it's a it's a whole it's a system of belief belief about what is
Ashok:real, what is the world, what's true, what's false. Narrative of reality, the an experience of life that you subscribe to and you say yes or no. There's a binary. I can say and my and my tribe, my homies join me, and we breathe this together. We conspire to breathe in a shared story, and the story within this space, within the binary, will have opposing multiple and in in our stories in a silo, and there are other stories.
Ashok:I could be a community of scientists, right, buying into a scientific narrative rather than a religious, narrative, for example. Right? Just to give that that example. Or I can subscribe to theism. God is real.
Ashok:God God or atheism. No. It's not. It's not. Right?
Ashok:And have a different community of believers. I I love what you're doing now. Of course, what you did beautifully was take the hologram, which is like, if this is the distillation of the journey of our human family of the greatest geniuses and first responders, men and women of the ages, to really just make it in a simplified visual that there's a derivative software and we're it's making us sick. It fragments us. And you were just pointing it out in nitty gritty.
Ashok:If people here are subscribing to under the sway of this software that we don't know and it fragments and polarizes, and I earn my own separateness and my own unit and my own identity, I got me and everything else is other, and you don't realize you cut yourself off from your primary self, then there's going to be a deep disconnect between you and you. It's not just me and the other and the significant other. I am my significant other. My deeper self is being held captive in the space, and I to flourish is to cross, to break the trance, and enter into all all the great first you realize your primary self. Leave the cave and discover who you are.
Ashok:That's why so the in this language, in this mind processing, which is has binary and therefore, binary within the soul, I can't be free. This is huge, and I feel it. Something is missing. I want my well-being. I wanna life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
Ashok:And I'm pursuing it here. It's not working. Mhmm. I got a lot of money. I got retired.
Ashok:My kids went to college. My lover all of what's going on here. My politics is falling apart in my environment. You know? Things are fragmented and so but I'm suffering because there's disconnect in the space.
Ashok:And what you're doing beautifully is saying, look, folks. If you're interested in self interest, I want to fit I wanna feel good. I want to be I I want to to be free. I want to be free range. I don't want to be stuck and caught in my mind.
Ashok:Oh, and my life should be bound. Being a bound person in a in a fragmented space. But if if you're a parent and you have a child and you're objectifying your child, when your child is a born as a sacred being, a mother's kid, and we're training him or her in parenting as an object, and and things are falling apart. And now we see in the computer cyber agent, our kids are on the cell phones and all that they're they're being taken into, deep holes and losing and and having mind rot, brain rot. And that that affects us, Nod.
Ashok:That affects us personally. So if a political life is in a civil war, the clash of ideologies, you call it ideology. What's an ideology? It's a narrative to which a community subscribes, and it gives us our meaning and our truth, and another community that has a polar opposite, the polarized other, it's gonna have a different language. If if I'm living in the pursuit of science, that gives you one kind of facts.
Ashok:If I'm living in a biblical world, they give me a different view of what's true. And so there is no one truth. There are many truths according to the narratives, the ideologies. That's what ideologies comes within the space. It's a system of ideas, a narrative I live by, that I say yes to.
Ashok:I use my will. I say yes to it. So I'm volunteering to be in that world view or multiple. I could be a a religious person. That's one lens I have.
Ashok:Or I could be a scientist in other lens. I could be a ecumenical citizen, keeping my religion out of I can have multiple lenses, but I'm still in silos. I'm in pieces. And if you're in pieces, you're suffering. So what you did beautifully is that if people can see that, wow, I know that things ain't right in my everyday life.
Ashok:Both my inner life, I'm in turmoil. I'm in anxiety. I don't feel safe. I don't feel whole. I'm suffering quietly, and I can't understand it.
Ashok:And I'm trying to get more stuff to fill a void that I'm feeling.
Näthan:That's the activism I'm talking about. I brought up the word activism. Activism doesn't just talking about, like, activists in their in their, you know, projects out there in the culture, but any form of trying to get better is the way I'm using the word activism. And you everybody's trying to get better within that space without breaking the trans. And so let's say you're you're you feel toxic.
Näthan:What are you gonna do? You're gonna detox to to get better. That's a that's a single bracket activism attempt at getting better, and it's well intentioned. But talks and detox are in the same boat. We keep on we keep on spinning our wheels in this space, and we're not getting better.
Näthan:You know, you can probably come up with countless examples of this. And so what we really wanted to distill in this is, you know, we were asking ourselves, has anybody said this? Is anybody bringing this out, this awareness? Because most, from what I'm witnessing, most people are sitting in their position and saying, I'm right. We're right.
Näthan:They're wrong. You're the bad ones. We're the good ones. Right? Whatever side they're on.
Näthan:And we're really good at pointing at the problem out there and in a sense sort of arrogating this this, this sense of righteousness and being on the right side of history, but you may be still in the same space that's generating exactly those symptoms that you detest. That's a big thing to say.
Ashok:That's a big thing to say that as as different as being still, unmoving and moving is still a moving kind of thing. Being red or not red is still colored. Right? Being active or non active is still action. Activism here is by my will, I'm going to do something to solve this problem.
Ashok:I'm gonna act. This is a different activism. Mhmm. This is where you're breaking the barrier and, oh.
Näthan:We call that act of vision.
Ashok:Activ vision because now you've got to have the vision of mindfulness. When you're acting mindfully, a zen in the zone, in the Christ, in the Buddha, in the yoga, in the Tao, in the right? When you're in that activism, not I'm doing it, but when you're zoning and serving it, you're not the doer. You're not privileging and centering in yourself, therefore, under the sway of the binary Mhmm. And the binary code.
Ashok:So all of our 10 what you're saying is huge now. We wanna solve we want a more perfect union. But, like, you're not gonna get it here because this is a disunion. This fragments. A more perfect union has to upgrade to.
Ashok:We have the in the American land. We're not, again, using that as an example. The out of the many, that's that's the the source the sourceware. You need this code. The dialogue, I and other are sacred.
Ashok:This is sacred land. This is the land of the free. This is where the will is not bind and bound, but the free free range human open up to meet self and other, to meet nature, to meet the other. The the multiplicity of plurality of meeting here is a Which is which is happiness.
Näthan:I mean, we're talking about happiness. We're talking about love. We're talking about feeling good for God's sake.
Ashok:That's right.
Näthan:Feeling being fulfilled and having meaning in life. You know? Right. And and that you'll be able to have relationships that are actually mutually giving and understanding and not codependent and
Ashok:Yes. That's right.
Näthan:You know, all the we can't flourish in any way, shape, or form in that lower space. So we're talking about here is is, you know, in the in our ongoing theme of breaking the trance is we've got to we have to step out of that if we're gonna overcome all of these all of these wars, internal and external. We can't overcome them. We can't be we can't find true happiness and peace, inner or outer, without this understanding. We just can't.
Ashok:That's right. Because the significant other is rendered insignificant, including me, when you're in the space because you're an object. You're objectified by this software. But when you cross into the into the logosphere, into the source space, the I and the other are boundaries. There's otherness, profoundness, infinite otherness.
Ashok:So everyone is unique and sacred in her space, in his space, and yet connected. That's a deeper ethics. That's a deeper politics. That's where we flourish in sacred space. So in a way, this derivative software that we're saying is a binary and a binary, it holds us, and we can't get out of it.
Ashok:Even if we push the other away in divorce, even in divorce, death will not do you pry pry. Mhmm. Mhmm. Right? It's not just you can be married or divorced, but you're still in the same place.
Ashok:So your enemy your enemy is still in the same place with you.
Näthan:Yes. And, you know, another another good example just to be very, very basic. It's as almost as basic as it gets. People say don't think negative, think positive. That's a big one that people default to.
Näthan:Positive is better than negative. Right? Of course. Yeah. Of course.
Näthan:Be positive. That's way better than being negative. Who's gonna argue with that? Right? Just like being anti racist is obviously better than being racist.
Näthan:But what we're saying is, you the the activism that you're trying the the changes you're trying to affect, the the results you're trying to to get can't be reached in this in that in that space when you're in this
Ashok:That's right.
Näthan:When you're married
Ashok:This is this is activism. This is the two kinds of actions. Right? Actions here that are bound and actions here that are liberating. And that's and what's this how do you do that kind of zen?
Ashok:How do you get in a zone? Right? You've gotta step back. You gotta go. You've gotta somehow break this barrier and cross into the flow.
Ashok:And now you're in the zen. Now you're flourishing.
Näthan:What we're saying is active vision, seeing it is breaking the barrier.
Ashok:That's right. That's right. That's exactly right.
Näthan:To see this to see it is to be it.
Ashok:That's right. And that's what zen when you go into the zone, we have to learn to be zoners. That activism is powerful. It means letting this go, not being held in the boundary as a bound being. Culture here is bound.
Ashok:So if in the present It's a prison.
Näthan:It's a kind of prison.
Ashok:That's right. We're in a prison. We're colonized. If your mind if your mind operating process that makes your world and makes this whole scene, you know, has got you captive. Your will is captive.
Ashok:Your your freedom is captive. You're operating under the sway. You're colonized by this.
Näthan:Right. So
Ashok:whatever your culture if you wanna be in the land of the free, you're not gonna find it here in the bound and space.
Näthan:Exactly.
Ashok:You've got to have the the the courage to step back and listen to the wisdom of a great teacher's right? Not not inside us, but see, wow. The infinite field is infinity. Oh, no. It's one.
Ashok:Reality cannot be fragmented. It's a unified view. This is a disunified divisive space, and you can't find a more perfect union here. You're gonna be in perpetual civil war, a clash of ideologies and worlds and stories and and duking it out for the dominant narrative by whatever means, but you're still in the same boat. And this book, it cannot, float.
Ashok:It can't you you know, this boat is ever float.
Näthan:Yeah. It's taking on that boat's taking on a lot of water right now, and and there's no amount of single bracket activism. It's like it would be like saying being on the Titanic and trying to stop it from sinking by using buckets That's pretty much it. Get the water out of there. You know?
Näthan:It's it's just not working. Our active activism in this space, again, on all levels, personal to global, is just it's not working. And I think somebody needs to say that. Somebody needs to point out, hey. It's not putting down our intentions to get better.
Näthan:The activism that we're doing, is noble. You know, for example, climate activists. I'm so grateful for climate activists who are making the the the putting forth the effort to to prevent the warming from getting to that extremely severe place where everything where it's just not sustainable anymore. Of course, that's great. But what what I'm saying is that if it's if it's, within that that single bracket space, within that objectified space, our solutions can only go so far without being part of the problem.
Näthan:That's that's
Ashok:what I said. That's the same right.
Näthan:And think about it. You get, like, your climate activist. So I I there was a day I could never have imagined that there would be, like, anti climate activists. You know? Like, people who are actually, like, mad at people for wanting to make the climate better.
Näthan:You know? It's it's so like, I could never have imagined, but that's exactly how it goes. You're always gonna get those the opposing sides and and it's and and this is the science that we're pointing out here. There's a a science behind it. Are those are those our only options?
Näthan:I mean, so, oh, well then, forget activism. I'm just gonna throw my hands up. No. What we're saying is, Activision first.
Ashok:That's right.
Näthan:That's right. Get get to the source of what's generated. Because, you know, in a way, what we're saying and I realize it's we're at, the the forty minute mark here. But way what we're saying is that this single bracket code, the the objectifying code, that's the cause of all of it. That's the cause of the war.
Näthan:That's the cause of depression. That's the cause of of of, you know
Ashok:The violence in
Näthan:nature. The size violence to nature, pollution, you name it. All forms of violence and degradation are being generated at the deepest level from this. And you can be a good person, but you're still under the sway of that of that bind binary logic.
Ashok:Yes.
Näthan:And and and we're saying, in fact, that is exactly what's going on. And and so imagine where humans can go now. If we were to get this, if we're this is to this awareness was to sweep the globe and everybody in their own way could kind of understand this. You know, it's like we're we're being all focused in this on this plane on the, like, the lateral shift, you know, paradigm shifts within the box. But we're talking about this.
Näthan:It's more like vertical in a way. You know, it's more it's like we'll go we gotta go up. We keep on doing this this lateral back and forth, and we're not It's
Ashok:a maturation of the human. It's a maturation of a rational part. Reason here
Näthan:is is
Ashok:is a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
Näthan:a a a a a a a a a a
Ashok:a a a a
Näthan:a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
Ashok:a a a a a deeper rationality, the logosphere. Sanity. Sanity is being touched with what's real, with reality. Mhmm. Unsanity, pre sanity, is when you're cut off from it.
Ashok:Mhmm. And if you're cut off from it, then you're gonna be cut off from the resource of unified connectivity and flow and love and and sacred life and fulfillment and well-being. You're going to be enshrined. You're gonna be in pieces. You're in your personal life, your inner human life, within your family, within the political and the workspace, in in the discourse of politics, everything in the across the world, across the religions, they're gonna be deep of silo fragmentation and the failure of dialogue and meeting.
Ashok:It's I, it, monologue, or I, thou, dialogues, dialogue.
Näthan:Mhmm.
Ashok:And you said science several times now. That's huge. We cannot find the foundation and ground of science and knowledge and truth in this space. Mhmm. Great teachers have known that.
Ashok:We've got to enter into the unified field, and that's where we have science, source science. A long quest to get to the foundation of all meaning and truth and language and word and reason, the light of reason. Here, we're surfing the space of reason. Here, we're cut off and using our wills individually and collectively with our communities to build a narrative in the binary Mhmm. Where our wills are bound and are free.
Ashok:Mhmm. So this is huge. This is giving a map to everyday people. Remember this, folks. If anyone is listening on our conversation, just keep an eye on this.
Ashok:Let that work on you. Is there a deeper space, a deeper language that our great teachers were teaching from us and coaching us? Folks, you're suffering. You're broken. You're alienated.
Ashok:You're shredded. You're not whole. You can't be unified. You can't find a more perfect unit. You're gonna be in illogical battles and wars.
Ashok:And activism, as great as you people are, we people, you're not going to be able to get to the source of the fragmentation. So your your your counter activism and unactivism is still activism here. It's a a or a plus a minus a here, but not it's not active. It's proactive. Why?
Ashok:Because you're not getting to the medical source from the science. Yeah. Maybe you can have another conversation about solar science now.
Näthan:Yeah. I think that's a great idea. We should we should wrap it, but that was,
Ashok:not quite fast. No. This went so fast.
Näthan:Yeah. It it goes really, really fast for us. I hope it went fast for you guys too. We're gonna keep keep bringing this point through a lot, but we kind of we've referred to it as the same boat axiom or the same boat law, well, how however you wanna say it. So we invite you to think about that, until our next one because that'll we'll be bringing that that theme back quite a bit.
Ashok:Alright. Nothing. Thank you very much for holding space in this heart to heart, and I hope others can benefit from it. Yeah. Yeah.
Ashok:Our intention is to reach out to all the people, everyone. We're not judging who is good or bad and good and evil because there's a deeper way to be. Everyone is a Logos kid. We we are viewing every human being, birthright, right, of citizenship here by birthright as a Logos kid. Right?
Ashok:We're sacred. We're all sacred. Right? And, and if we're trapped here, and I mean, we're not judging, because judging is what you do here. You judge one.
Ashok:But here, you receive in the presence. This is being a mindful human life presence. Mhmm. Sacred space. And everyone deserves and should.
Ashok:And that's our intention with these lab, you know, these these, sore source, conversations that you and I are having us to. We see how vital it is the most important thing in human family in our journey ever right now is to break the trans.
Näthan:Yes. We're gonna keep doing it.
Ashok:And, again, I'd like to end almost by saying that, anyone who's interested in learning more because, you know, when I work with my students over week after week, two sessions a week, they begin to get this as you work. You you can do this with with Nathan. He offers coaching sessions, and he's a a models coach. So not that I don't wanna embarrass you by saying this. Yeah.
Ashok:But there's a link there's a link that you can, get, you know, individual or small group coaching and education. We call it code education. Not coed, but coed. Understanding the vital importance of which code are you in, this or that, and this is well-being. Mhmm.
Ashok:I'll sign off with that.
Näthan:Okay. Good. Good. Thank you guys for listening. Much appreciated.
